Dragonflymagic's advice column

Life is an adventure but Life doesn't come with user manuals for everything. School subjects do little to prepare us. Its no wonder we all need helpful advice sometimes. Blessings to you!

advice

My wife and I have a great marriage. She and I have another male/female couple that we have regualr sex with. I currently make love to my male friend about four times a month. My wife and my male lover's wife would like us guys to have sex more often, they mentioned having sex about 15-20 nights per month. Is is a good idea?

Well, I have some background experience with open-marriage vs swinging vs polyamory, so what ever your situation, I can let you know my honest opinion but whether it actually applies in your case, the final decisions are still yours.

Although I had the male of an open marriage couple interested in me, the only things I have ever experienced is both swinging first, and then later polyamory. I don't mean to come across as telling you something you don't know but will just explain what the differences are to me, so you can determine if we both have the same understanding.

Open marriage is more of a spouses okay to find a lover but they don't ever want to meet that person or hear anything about them. From talking to people in this situation, they didn't seem to have much other rules or safe guards in place.

Swinging can be done through contact with another couple, usually swapping of spouses for sex thru whomeever you meet in daily life, thru internet sites like Swappernet or by attending swing clubs.Swinging is usually only for sexual fun but nothing else that implies something more than sex ever happens. So it is odd to find other sex couple friends who want to go to a show with you guys or on a hike together, spend time enjoying the company. This kind of full relationship thing is what polyamory is. Then again, there are poly people who love the other but it is not a sexual thing, though that is in the minority as I never came across many like that.

I am working towards answering your specific question as to whether having sex with the others 15-20 nights per month is a good idea.

The reason swinging is so popular is that deeper emotions of love don't have to come in play and that is easier the less contact there is with other couples. I remember the first couple hubby and I swapped with, they experienced the same excitement that two people get when entering a new relationship together, NRE or new relationship energy feels almost like a drug where everything feels extra super wonderful, you're on cloud nine and get can't get enough of what ever it is that has your attention. I didn't feel it but the other couple did towards us and they were constantly contacting us after the first time to want to get together again and again and again. After a while it wore off for them as NRE will do, and tho we still saw them, they began to play with other couples. This happens another time in life later, a couple who upon meeting us, wanted to see us several nights a week and even just showed up at our house, and they eventually mentioned they wanted to be exclusive with us, so no sex with any other couples. This isn't uncommon in these circles.
But what is common is coming across jealousy in any way shape and form and That one thing has destroyed any kind of relationships we had with any people. Unknown to me, the ex husband of now was then going to every female of each couple we got close to and tried to convince her to leave her husband and marry him. People only told me after I left him because of abusive behavior. He of course had mental illness untreated and that was the main cause of him doing this.
But for myself, I have seen women jealous of me with their husbands if they witness anything that could make them jealous and it didn't have to be sex. If he laughed at my humor but never ever had with hers, or he was playing with my long hair but never did it for her, stuff like that was enough to enflame the wife with jealousy. PS, this went both ways. One female had always wanted to cowrite a story together and my husband was willing. He and her shared story stuff back and forth daily. This constant contact made her husband jealous and he forbade her to ever have contact with my ex again. Sometimes its worse if a spouse hears their partner with someone else, making sounds they never make with their spouse. Anouther guy abruptly steered his wife away from us at the club one night and they avoided contact with us forever with no explanation.
It may be okay for now but the amount of time they want to see you could be due to NRE. And if so, it will wear off after a couple of months and then you will have the type of relationship when your brain has finally chilled, where you see others occasionally. Even those who attended every weekend and even for 3 day holiday weekends, even like valentines or halloween, would never come near 15-20 nights a month. 10 would be stretching it incase there was two of the 3 day weekends in one month and I don't think that ever happened.
The reason people who are open marriage or swingers don't go more often is that they like to keep this aspect of their sex life very quiet and unknown to any children they have whether adult kids or still adolescent and from all couples who thought they were keeping it a secret, even young teens figured it out eventually on their own. I have 3 children and they also figured something was up too.
It could be that this couple both have extremely high libidos where they like to have sex several times a day and I think high libido is just once a day every day and sometimes every other day. So they may have been searching for couples they like enough to spend more sex time with. If you're the only ones they seem to like, then instead of having a handful of couples to see over the month, they end up wanting to get all their needs met thru just the two of you. It also could be that far in their past, further back than how long you've known them, they got close like this to other couples but kept losing them. Eventually it is easy for one partner to feel that their spouse is not showing enough attention to them anymore because its now split half and half or way more than half with the bigger half to some one else. Resentment can build which is enough to cause serious relationship trouble for you and your wife, no matter how open minded you are about this all. I have seen it over and over again in other people. Jealousy is a fear of loss. If I understand correctly, you never see them for male-female sex swapping but you with a male and wife with the female, so there probably wouldn't be the fear of loss of wife to another man or loss of husband wanting the other female more. This is big. So it may not be an issue as much as the amount of time you give your wife. She still comes first over any other people. Even if there are children, no matter how important, the two of you are a unit and must work to keep that relationship healthy and well so you can be around for children and so on. You did not mention kids so I assume there aren't any. If there were, you might not be considering doing this so many nights because it would involve being away from the kids a lot and kids are still a bigger priority than your friends, lovers, extended family.
Also, just because they want this, does not mean you have to agree. Make a counter offer. I still feel that if every weekend is spent with them, it should be enough. But to meet once during middle of week should be okay as long as it doesnt interfere with your schedule or wants or other activities. Lets say the wife signed up to take lessons at local evening college to learn some subject, maybe speaking Spanish, doing yoga, and it happens to be each week on a night you spend with this couple. My advice would be to be supportive of what your wife wants to do, even though it means telling the couple they need to pick another day or perhaps, that isn't an option. You can't let another couples wishes and demands or even their getting upset if you are constantly changing meeting days for example cus you are going on with your lives and activities other than sex. Don't get me wrong, sex is an important part of the relationship but there is a point at which there can be excess, too much to the point it is disrupting all the rest of your life, leaving no room to go visit extended family or never having any time anymore for non sexual friends and best friends. There is also the other extreme of not enough and then it borders on 'neglect' if not taking care of your first committment, your wife.

This is something you both have to discuss. In most cases the women I asked were the ones to drag their hubbies, even boyfriends into swinging. (well, not drag, I'm sure they were shocked but willing) But there are plenty women who only went along with to please husbands and for fear of losing him if they didn't go along with it and tho a few could hide it well, most said nothing even if there were visual clues they weren't happy or enjoying it. Find out what your wife really wants. If you have such a great marriage, what are both your priorities towards it. A great marriage is like a flower garden. You can't just have it to enjoy looking at or being in the garden only to spend some peaceful time there. A garden to be a beautiful garden needs like of attention from you, weeding so the flowers are choked out, enough water and any needed fertilizing, etc.... If you have ever seen neglected overgrown gardens, you known what i mean. A spouse is even more precious than a garden. So make sure that you both are on the same page and she isn't agreeing only to make you happy even though her heart isn't in it. Or what does she feel is a reasonable amount of time with the other couple? Pick and decide together on your counter offer if indeed you want to make one. However, whenever engaging in sex outside of the marriage, a couple needs to have safe words, or secret words to alert their spouse they want to end a session right away for whatever reason. Also you both need to be in agreement that at any point that just one of you feels its too much or like you feel more married to the other person than your own spouse, or feel any anxiety, jealousy, or misgivings, that it is time to talk in private. Review how you both feel so if it is decide you need to spend less time with or even cut off the relationship, then you agree together, even if one of you did not have or feel any issues, the fact your spouse does is enough to do whatever you have to, putting her needs first as she is the priority in your life, same as you should be the priority in her life. This all goes both ways tho I am using you as the example.
You need to realize that most adults even married or ones with lovers, do not have sex near as many times a month as this couple wants with you. And you haven't even added the number of times you have with the wife. So the general public will see this as excessive. However it really matters what works for you and if its due to their having a very high libido and desiring sex anytime, anywhere, as often as possible and you and wifes libido is perhaps less and you feel that 5 times a week is all that you or her ever have a real desire or need for sex, do the math, 20 times a month is enough to have sex between you two. Now you have to double that to having sex the 20 times with them and it can get quite unreal maintaining 40 times a month, of which 10 days could easily require you having sex with the wife and also with the guy in the same day. You may be up for it, (forgive the pun) but what of the wife, does she libido match the demand? If not, a person who does have have the same libido as their partner or any added outside lovers, then there is a problem, lots of problems that can arise and the biggest being that I have seen couples split over this. They have had had differing libidos but made it work. However once adding the stress of maintaining relationships with lovers as well, marriages crumbled. I did this long enough to see in all levels, the open marriages, mostly issues occurred with swinging, but also frequent enough even in polyamory.
Keep in mind that if the both of you have differing ideas of what you want from lovers on the side, that it may be easier to each of you find your own lover who matches you and not swap direct with another couple. There are enough couples and even singles who are swingers, females and males, so that there is a chance for each of you to continue on with something that works for you although, even if not with a couple, wife being home while you're out with someone you wants you most the days of the week will still not help as she keeps herself busy at home, seeing a lover once a week and feeling neglected by you the rest.
I know I am writing this in a tone that sounds so pessimistic but its easier to understand all the good parts and rewards of having lovers besides your mate. Not everyone will share all the potential issues. There is probably more I didn't think of but this is enough to give you a good idea of what to do. One talk in detail getting wife to openly share how she feels about it. If willing to go for it, as soon as it presents issues in your marriage, then talk and review again as to what you will do, or turn them down to begin with. You can wait and go on as before and see how much they keep demanding more time with you. the more time with others, helps you to eventually see the things it is too easy for them to hide for the first couple months. Don't be afraid to break it off with them, same as when you used to be single and dating and needed it to end. The ex and I broke relationships off with a few couples that after some time we found to have issues detrimental to relationships. Some try to stay together for kids, even adult kids but at a hidden level want to still have the vibrant sex life they don't have with each other. They may be best of friends but never were a match as lovers. If a couple like this comes along, it can be toxic for your relationship. Just discuss this all and you will both be fine. There's nothing wrong with both of you being bi. But if she isn't, just going through the motions, I would advice you and the wife start renegotiating, as in, is she okay with you having a male lover and if she isn't really into bi but more strictly hetero, then you have to be equally okay with her lover outside the marriage being a male. Most people can't handle one close relationship well and adding an extra into the mix will bring to the surface any issues you didn't know existed between you two or personal issues because if a person thinks they can but truly don't have enough skills to really have the kind of relationship solid and healthy enough to add on lovers on both sides, then its best that as soon as this is discovered, that you stop and focus on your relationship unless you want to take the chance of losing it.
Hope this helped you. If you have any other such questions about this subject that come up, feel free to write to me from my column page and I will help again as much as I can.