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Boy Scouts... or religion?
I'm an Aethiest. I strongly believe that there is no god. I respect other people's religions, and I don't try to convert people or anything. Now, I've been in scouting for years. Lots of years. From a Tiger Cub Scout in 1st grade to a First Class scout now (I'm kind of slow with scouting). Anyway, the requirement for every class that says to live the Scout Oath and Scout Law in your every day life is now being enforced. My parents made me describe each part of the Law and Oath in great depth. When we reached Brave and Clean, I was starting to slip up. And then we reached Reverent.
Boy Scouts expects everyone to believe in some sort of god, and be straight. Gays and Aethiests have been kicked out in the past. And since Boy Scouts is a private thing, government can't interfere. People have tried to sue and lost the case. Now, I want to keep scouting. I love being a Boy Scout. Plus, it'll look good on my job application forms when I'm old enough that it won't be against child labor laws. =P So my options are:
a) Quit scouting (I don't want to. Really.)
b) Believe in a god (I'm not going to change my beliefs because of this. It's not in human nature.
c) Lie about my religion (Also against the Scout Oath. Not good.)
So obviously, I'm screwed. What should I do? It's putting so much pressure on me...
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Maybe give some free advice about: Spirituality?
its like toatally illegal to indivdulize people cause of religion goes against america
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I'm so glad you asked this question.I'm a Christian,and please don't just blow me off because i said that,you said you respect other people's beliefs.So anyways,instead of lying or "pretending" why don't you take this whole athiest issue into deep thought.If you dont mind that I ask,could you explain to me why you dont believe in God or why you are athiest?Im almost positive I'll be able to help.
trust me you haven't changed my "religious veiws" if you're gonna believe in something you're gonna put your whole life into it so you better have proof to back you up abd proove others wrong,am i right?No, there's no official proof like a video or something, and you have to understand that believeing in God means putting your trust in Him and believeing that God is,was,and is to come...God always was..Thats all I can tell you.But could you answer my quesion and prooove that there is no God?
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I sympathize with your sticky situation.
Obviously you've learned to think for yourself, since most likely nobody raised you to be atheist. The Boy Scouts is kind of like the Church: they've gotten a lot of things right, but not everything. There's an expression: Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Just because the Boy Scouts hasn't evolved with contemporary culture to include atheists and gays in its auspices doesn't mean you have to quit. You've set up a "false dilemma" for yourself, forcing yourself to choose among three equally untenable alternatives. Perhaps you need to enlarge your point of view. Or change it.
Hmm... what if for you God is Nature? Do the verses refer specifically to the god of the bible, or just "God"? If you revere nature and find a sense of spirituality in the outdoors, you would be remaining true both to yourself and to the Scouts, as long as when you speak of God, YOU intend to mean YOUR God, not the Christians' God.
Try Googling "Deist". Many of our forefathers were Deists--they believed a god of sorts set the world up with rules of physics and such, and set it spinning, and hasn't interfered since. This is definitely not the god your friends and neighbors worship, but it was Thomas Jefferson's God.
Of course, we all know the Scouts aren't referring to any other God than the Christian's God, so you'd be a little dishonest.
You know, sometimes you have to stand up for what you believe in. Other times, you have to look at the bigger picture and act in your own best interest (ie. your resume/job application).
Perhaps someday the Scouts will come around and become the secular organization they ought to be, and if you are patient and play along for now, you will be in a position to help lead the organization into a new era, even if only by participating as a pack leader for your son's troop.
I wasn't much help. Good luck with your dilemma.
Dr. Chad
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Try talking to your scout leader. Let them know what you are thinking about. Tell them how much you enjoy scouting but really don't believe in changing your religion for such a cause. Just see what happens, maybe they will understand! Good Luck with everything!
Brandi && Alix
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Think about what Scouting really means to you. If job applications is your only reason to stay in, then it's not the best of reasons. But if it's much more than that, you've got some tough questions to ask yourself.
You should not have to compromise yourself, or what you believe, for any activity. How often does the religion question come up in Scouting? If you are comfortable with it, you can just choose to not talk about your beliefs. It seems like you might not be comfortable lying by omission, though, and that's where this gets tough.
The real choice is this: What is more important to you, Boy Scouts or yourself?
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Be honest. If they cant accept you dont believe in a religion kick the nearest guy in the nose. Slam your fist into anothers throat and knock someone out.
Also, once you get in trouble for it, make up such proposterous lies like "He touches me when we're alone"
It would make for a great court case.
If you dont want to get in a lot of trouble though, I advise not doing such things.
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What do you value more? A good job application or a complete betrayal of your (lack of) faith/ beliefs?
If you don't agree with the boy scout "docterine", why be a part of it?
If you lie about your religion, you may regret it. I was confirmed into the Lutheran church when I was in 8th grade; I had serious issues with what the church believed and what I believed at the time, but I agreed to be confirmed because my whole family would have been devistated otherwise. I now regret that decision and I realize that I should have been true to myself.
This is an easy problem. You just have to decide where your values lie.
Good luck.
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Skip that part, pretend like you forgot it.
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Being a life scout who too did not believe in a God until this past year, I know where you are coming from. This is a case where a scout make a right vs. right choice. And yes, they are the hardest decisions to make.
You are walking home. You see a lady drop her groceries. Your dad said that you need to be home by 2, and you can make it home if you don't help her. Or, you can help her and be late. A scout is obedient, yet a scout is also helpful. What point is more important?
This is a matter of trustworthy, brave, and reverent. You cannot leave because a scout is brave and lives up to challenges. Yet, you cannot lie and brea the trustworthy part. Yet again, you cannot be reverent because of your own personal beliefs. So, what is the most important part?
Why don't we take a look to the scout oath for reference.
"On my honor, I will do my BEST to do my duty to god and my contry, to obey the scout law..." That's where you go to. You do not have to obey every scout law. Sometimes, they conflict with each other. So, you can in fact defile one of the laws to get the others straight. AKA, you'd only defile 1 to get the other 2 back.
Then, the last line "And to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight." That line played a big role at the 12 cubed show at the Jamboree. It's duty to self. You are also a big part in this decision, as you need to remember what is best for you. Scouts are for you, you don't have to be for scouts.
So then, which do you do? Go ahead and lie about your religeon. Leaving scouts immediately takes away an advantage you have already. The scout law and oath are still guiding you daily, they do not guide some people. You know important skills required. And you also have a shot at Eagle, which could allow you to get into the college of your choice automatically. You'd give up those advantages by leaving. Heck, do you know the bowline? Can you tie a square knot? Where'd that be without scouting? You'd still be stuck tying shoelace knots.
Then, there's making yourself believe in God. NO! That is also against the scout oath. A scout is trustworthy. A scout also does a duty to himself.
So, that leaves lying about your religeon. Go ahead. You may be like me, and find yourself soon. You may never. Yet, you are still a scout.
-Steven
PS: I should be Eagle, I've been working on it for over 2.5 years now, nonstop, and I have all requirements done. I should be able to get my board of review now. But, my troop says that I need to implement leadership projects with the troop. Bleh. You tell me.
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Wow, you are in QUITE a pickle there buddy.
If I were you, even though it's going to be hard would be to quit scouting. If someone is FORCING you to believe in some sort of God, or religion then you should leave. Lying about a religion is just a dumb thing to do, regardless of the situation.
I'm not an expert on girlscouts or boyscouts, so I don't know HOW good everything will look, but it seems as though you've been there for a LONG enough time, where even if you left now, it would still look JUST as good on your work applications and even college resumes.
This is something you're really going to have to think about. What is weighing more heavily in your life? Scouting or your non belief in God?
What I would do, is come up with a list of pros and cons for each option. (Sounds silly, but hey it does work!) Make a chart, head it with Quit Scouting, Believing in a God, and Lying abour religion. Under each heading, write a good thing that will happen, and a bad thing that will happen.
Hopefully, everything will work out for you. I don't think you should force yourself, or have anyone force you into a religion. Again, if I were you I would quit. I am agnostic.. But I hate when people try to push religion on me. I wouldn't lie about having a religion either.
So, try what I told you and I hope everything works out for the best. Best of luck to you.
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Wow, I never really thought about that, but girl scouts is the same way. The girl scout pledge says "On my honor I will try to serve God and my country...". Very interesting. I never had a problem with it because I am Christian. Boy Scouts is a great program to be involved in and I'm sorry that you have to go through this. Well, I think that you should talk to your scout leader (or whatever it's called, I don't know that much about boy scouts :-P) about it. You could also talk to all the members of your troop (or whatever they call it :-P) and let them know about your beliefs. If everyone is okay with it than I think that it might be okay for you to remain a member. "God" can be interpreted in so many ways. You could refer to the first living cell or what you believe to have caused it as "God". If you feel like you're going against your religion, though, I would suggest maybe joining something like 4-H? There's nothing about God in their pledge even though Christian values are important in it. If you don't know what 4-H is, it's like a co-ed agriculture based scouting program. I'm a member and I am very proud of that. It's a great program and there's probably a club in your area. The agriculture thing...the club I'm in doesn't do anything with agriculture so don't worry about that. 4-H is all about community service, leadership, and development of self. It's a great program that, like scouting, looks really good on job applications and stuff. I hope I helped you in some way. Good luck!
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Well if you must go against your beleifs then its really not worth it. I'm sure there are many other clubs & orgs. you can join that dont discriminate
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