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My friend and I are arguing about the differences between punk, goth, emo, and indie in music and otherwise. I am not sure who is right. Can anyone help clear the topic up?
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(where im from)
punk-- upbeat rock/pop, style is usually like converse, vans, jeans, dc, etc.
goth-- wears black everything!! some worship the devil (which is completely stupid and lame!!), but some dont.
emo--emotional, stuff like p! atd, etc.
indie--not sure.!!
]
The meaning & background of 'punk':
The wide-spread basic understanding or definition of 'punk' includes a basic wanting to be different, and who is different. A 'real punk' will never stereotype themselves. To put this in perspective, have you ever heard a cheerleader say "Oh my god, I'm such a prep, that girl over there dressed in all pink is such a wannabe poser." I doubt it, and if you have, I pity you.. greatly for even knowing of such a person. When someone says "Oh my god, look at that poser!" Does that honestly make them 'punk' and therefore 'cool'?
The name also came from punk rock. A form of hard-driving rock 'n' roll originating in the 1970s, characterized by harsh lyrics attacking conventional society and popular culture, and often expressing alienation and anger. Rock music with deliberately offensive lyrics expressing anger and social alienation; in part a reaction against progressive rock. This is what started the whole thing. But punk rock goes AGAINST stereotyping, and calling oneself 'punk' is just that.
There are 'real punks' and posers. They are two separate categories. The above just proves that there are a LOT more posers then there appear to be.
For starters, 'real punks' are technically punk rockers. A performer or follower of punk rock music. However, in today’s hypo-heterogeneous music gene pool, there is hardly any real punk music, as a definition. It's always 'punk rock', 'punk pop', whatever. They all count. Punk (as defined above) is a type of music defined by lyrics and attitude. This means that punk rockers are listeners of punk music, with punk music categorized by the message the band is sending.
This is how we get posers: 'Punks' tend to dress a little crazy [crazy to 'normal' people anyway] but it never really became a 'fashion' until certain celebrities started calling it that. Avril Lavigne & Hilary Duff for instance. Yes. Sadly, all those old school, before it became popular, punks were screwed over by popular culture. Suddenly it became 'cool' to be 'punk'. To dress different, and do crazy things with ones hair and makeup.
This is not to say that everyone who does this, even younger people [people who weren't born in the 1970s] are posers. You are a punk rocker if you listen to punk music. It doesn’t matter what you dress like.
How you dress has NOTHING to do with being punk. It means that either you honestly like the clothing style that has been deamed 'punk' and you wear it because of that, or you're a poser trying to be cool and you think your clothes will do that for you and you're no better than preps who obsess with clothes to become popular and think that other people's clothing defines them just like it will define you as 'punk' and 'cool'
Punks by definition, both above and social don't want to be cool. They want to be themselves and rebel against anything they feel is suppressing them.
Posers are much easier to define as punks. Posers are people who pretend to be 'punk' because they think it'll make them 'cool'
What I really want people to see is that by calling yourself a 'punk' you are showing how much of a loser you really are. Claiming to be 'punk' and calling other people 'posers' does not mean you are a poser, I never said that, but if you think that it makes you 'cool' to be 'punk' and call other people 'posers', then you are. Realize that punk is NOT a fasion style, and clothing means NOTHING what-so-ever. Anyone who basis any judgment what someone is wearing and labels them from that is either a poser themselves or just a rude and ignorant person.
The determination of punk vs. poser is not in clothes or anything like that, but someone’s true music preference and mindset regarding society and life. And if this helps, The Ramones is punk, and Blink 182 is not.
..I told you this is going to be long.
The meaning & background of 'Emo':
"Genre of softcore punk music that integrates unenthusiastic melodramatic 17 year olds who dont smile, high pitched overwrought lyrics and inaudible guitar rifts with tight wool sweaters, tighter jeans, itchy scarfs (even in the summer), ripped chucks with favorite bands signature, black square rimmed glasses, and ebony greasy unwashed hair that is required to cover at least 3/5 ths of the face at an angle." This is probably what you have come to learn over the past few years on what 'emo' actually means. Well, they are wrong, just so you know.
'Emo' is not short for 'Emotional'. 'Emo' does not mean Taking Back Sunday and Dashboard Confessional, despite what MTV has lead you to believe in the last few years. 'Emo' is not a mixture of sidebangs, tight pants, and male vocalists who sing like little girls about their failed relationships. 'Emo' is not the use of diluted, meaningless metaphors and similes such as "My arms are like pinecones," and most definitely is not the rampant use of words such as "heart, knife, bleeding, and razorblade."
I just thought I'd clear that up after all of these 'definitions' in which I have encountered an unbelievable amount of people who try to pass off their blatantly false pretenses as fact, and are slowly infecting others with their bullshit. Because honestly with your ridiculous
definitions, Britney Spears are/was 'emo' at some point or another.
Now, onto the real definition. In the early 90s there was a movement in the hardcore genre that came to be known as 'Emotive Hardcore'. Harder-core-than-thou kids, who swore by Dischord Records a la Minor Threat, actually coined the term "Emo" as something of a put-down for the kids who really liked Rites Of Spring, Indian Summer and this new wave of 'Emotive' Hardcore bands. That's right, 'Emo' was once not something kids called themselves. The field exploded outwards from there. Level-Plane Records has always been the most famous Emo label. Acts like Yaphet Kotto, I Hate Myself, Saetia, Hot Cross, A Day In Black And White, Funeral Diner, I Would Set Myself On Fire For You, You And I, and hosts of others came in the next decade. Most emo bands have since broken up, but there's still the occasional hold-out. Like most DIY hardcore/punk of the time, a majority found its way onto vinyl and not much else. Some people consider bands like Fugazi, and later Sunny Day Real Estate, a progression of emo, but personally, I don't quite follow that philosophy.
Often more recently, this gets intertwined with post-hardcore, and understandably so, that's nothing to make an issue of, since well shit, at least it's close.
Since the late 90s, though, bands have been emerging in the vein of Taking Back Sunday, Dashboard Confessional, and the thousands of their clones. As far as I can tell, some lazy journalist somewhere, writing an article about them, decided "Well, shit, no one knows what emo is anyways, so I'll call these bands 'emo' - sounds more appealing than bubblegum pop rock." and the spiral continued downwards into the current amalgomation of bands MTV has told everyone is 'emo'.
Somehow, people decided that 'emo' meant 'emotional' [I myself did until I recently read the article of 'emo' on urbandictionary] which is obviously bullshit, as 99% of bands make music to illicit emotion, which would make 'emotional' a completely all-encompassing genre from classical to opera to pop to rap.
The meaning & background of 'Goth':
Since this subject seems to be very controversal, i'll go through some things you may think and what you don't know.
1. Goths are suicidal.
- Ok, let me begin by saying anyone can be suicidal. Goths, preps, jocks, nerds, anyone. Just because someone dresses in black or listens to Rock music and stuff doesn't make them suicidal.
2. All goths are gay or lesbian.
- Once again, this is a topic that anyone may be, not just these guys.
3. Goths are evil/worship satan.
- This is what Catholic Fanatics made everyone believe. Ok, so they may seem dark or even scary, but that doesn't make them satanic. Satanism is a religion, not a trend.
4. All goths should die.
- I am against the killing of anyone because of their likes/dislikes/looks/tastes.
Hopefully, this guide has given you insite that no mater how different people seem, we all are capable of the same shit. But, here's one that may save you. If you don't like someone, leave them the hell alone! Don't waste your life making their's hell because they don't look or act like you.
Goth was originally a term used to describe people with a taste for certain bands [i.e- Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy, The Cure, etc.] in the '80s when punk started to fade out, and with wardrobes predominantly black.
In the 90s and early 2000s the goth subculture seemed to change to include bands such as Nirvana, Linkin Park, Slipknot, Cradle of Filth, etc.
Many goths have a cynical outlook on society and have an evolved sense of humor which has gone beyond the "Your mom" as an insult and will laugh at others, and at themselves in a healthy way. Goths don't usually care what other people think of them, and don't care if they don't fit in. Goths don't care, either what sexuality, religion, etc. other goths are.
If you shout insults after a bunch of goths, alot of the time, they might not be offended, but take pride that people are realizing that they're individuals.
Definition of 'Indie':
History: grew out from 60s garage, 70s punk, and 80s post punk it started in the mid 80s as alternative/college radio music. Once nirvana hit big the alternative genre split: the popular side was just alternative(Smashing Pumpkins, Hole, No Doubt, etc.) and the other half that wasn't mainstream (by choice or not) became indie rock (Pavement, Sebadoh, Built To Spill, etc). Some bands have signed to major labels but are still considered indie (Modest Mouse, etc.) Go figure.
Sound: In the begining indie sounded like alternative (because it was) but it grew more experimental and weird. In Britain indie has more of a typical sound like Radiohead, Muse, etc. rather than a definition based on 'the scene.'
The scene: if you really think all indie kids do is try to be cooler than other people then well, you're mostly right. The main point is, don't take the scene and the whole hipster attitude seriously. No one does.
It's mainly a gloriously vague term for 'Independant Music'. Basically unsigned or more obscure bands (It's odd that Radiohead and REM are considered indie). While the indie scene is known for it's jackass elitism, this doesn't spill over and hurt what's most important..the music. One of the few generas left that can at least carry a frickin tune without screaming like a retard or crying.
Examples of indie music over the years;
80's- Joy Division, Sonic Youth, The Smiths
90's- Pavement, Radiohead, The Pixies, Happy Mondays (Are they considered dance music or indie rock?).
Now- The Shins, Bright Eyes, Death Cab For Cutie/The Postal Service, Rilo Kelly, Modest Mouse.
Hope I helped ernst_384
]
Emo- There are many ways of interpreting it, although only a true emo can and true emo does never tell the world they are emo, it does mean emotional, although when it comes to music there is little true emo music around it is mostly on vinyl nowadays. So Taking back Sunday and Dashboard Confessional are the new emo, softcore rock.
Goth-Do wear black and are dark people but can be very religious and the nicest people around although society choses to not exept them becasue they think they are murderous people who whorship the devil and hate life, which is untrue, although some may be santanic it is not somethign all goths are.
Punk-Well the last person to define punk defined it fairly well.
Indie-I cant really define that my specialty is emo punk and goth was never sure about indie music.
]
I warn you now, this is very long. I hate sterio-types, so I know a lot about them. I like to rant on what's real and what's posing, so if you have time, you can listen. And if you don't, I wouldn't even bother reading it to begin with. [btw, almost all of my information game from the website 'urbandictionary' that is where I have learned so much on the subject in question. I would have just gave you the url, but some computers are slower than others, so this is for your convience].
The meaning & background of 'punk':
The wide-spread basic understanding or definition of 'punk' includes a basic wanting to be different, and who is different. A 'real punk' will never stereotype themselves. To put this in perspective, have you ever heard a cheerleader say "Oh my god, I'm such a prep, that girl over there dressed in all pink is such a wannabe poser." I doubt it, and if you have, I pity you.. greatly for even knowing of such a person. When someone says "Oh my god, look at that poser!" Does that honestly make them 'punk' and therefore 'cool'?
The name also came from punk rock. A form of hard-driving rock 'n' roll originating in the 1970s, characterized by harsh lyrics attacking conventional society and popular culture, and often expressing alienation and anger. Rock music with deliberately offensive lyrics expressing anger and social alienation; in part a reaction against progressive rock. This is what started the whole thing. But punk rock goes AGAINST stereotyping, and calling oneself 'punk' is just that.
There are 'real punks' and posers. They are two separate categories. The above just proves that there are a LOT more posers then there appear to be.
For starters, 'real punks' are technically punk rockers. A performer or follower of punk rock music. However, in today’s hypo-heterogeneous music gene pool, there is hardly any real punk music, as a definition. It's always 'punk rock', 'punk pop', whatever. They all count. Punk (as defined above) is a type of music defined by lyrics and attitude. This means that punk rockers are listeners of punk music, with punk music categorized by the message the band is sending.
This is how we get posers: 'Punks' tend to dress a little crazy [crazy to 'normal' people anyway] but it never really became a 'fashion' until certain celebrities started calling it that. Avril Lavigne & Hilary Duff for instance. Yes. Sadly, all those old school, before it became popular, punks were screwed over by popular culture. Suddenly it became 'cool' to be 'punk'. To dress different, and do crazy things with ones hair and makeup.
This is not to say that everyone who does this, even younger people [people who weren't born in the 1970s] are posers. You are a punk rocker if you listen to punk music. It doesn’t matter what you dress like.
How you dress has NOTHING to do with being punk. It means that either you honestly like the clothing style that has been deamed 'punk' and you wear it because of that, or you're a poser trying to be cool and you think your clothes will do that for you and you're no better than preps who obsess with clothes to become popular and think that other people's clothing defines them just like it will define you as 'punk' and 'cool'
Punks by definition, both above and social don't want to be cool. They want to be themselves and rebel against anything they feel is suppressing them.
Posers are much easier to define as punks. Posers are people who pretend to be 'punk' because they think it'll make them 'cool'
What I really want people to see is that by calling yourself a 'punk' you are showing how much of a loser you really are. Claiming to be 'punk' and calling other people 'posers' does not mean you are a poser, I never said that, but if you think that it makes you 'cool' to be 'punk' and call other people 'posers', then you are. Realize that punk is NOT a fasion style, and clothing means NOTHING what-so-ever. Anyone who basis any judgment what someone is wearing and labels them from that is either a poser themselves or just a rude and ignorant person.
The determination of punk vs. poser is not in clothes or anything like that, but someone’s true music preference and mindset regarding society and life. And if this helps, The Ramones is punk, and Blink 182 is not.
..I told you this is going to be long.
The meaning & background of 'Emo':
"Genre of softcore punk music that integrates unenthusiastic melodramatic 17 year olds who dont smile, high pitched overwrought lyrics and inaudible guitar rifts with tight wool sweaters, tighter jeans, itchy scarfs (even in the summer), ripped chucks with favorite bands signature, black square rimmed glasses, and ebony greasy unwashed hair that is required to cover at least 3/5 ths of the face at an angle." This is probably what you have come to learn over the past few years on what 'emo' actually means. Well, they are wrong, just so you know.
'Emo' is not short for 'Emotional'. 'Emo' does not mean Taking Back Sunday and Dashboard Confessional, despite what MTV has lead you to believe in the last few years. 'Emo' is not a mixture of sidebangs, tight pants, and male vocalists who sing like little girls about their failed relationships. 'Emo' is not the use of diluted, meaningless metaphors and similes such as "My arms are like pinecones," and most definitely is not the rampant use of words such as "heart, knife, bleeding, and razorblade."
I just thought I'd clear that up after all of these 'definitions' in which I have encountered an unbelievable amount of people who try to pass off their blatantly false pretenses as fact, and are slowly infecting others with their bullshit. Because honestly with your ridiculous
definitions, Britney Spears are/was 'emo' at some point or another.
Now, onto the real definition. In the early 90s there was a movement in the hardcore genre that came to be known as 'Emotive Hardcore'. Harder-core-than-thou kids, who swore by Dischord Records a la Minor Threat, actually coined the term "Emo" as something of a put-down for the kids who really liked Rites Of Spring, Indian Summer and this new wave of 'Emotive' Hardcore bands. That's right, 'Emo' was once not something kids called themselves. The field exploded outwards from there. Level-Plane Records has always been the most famous Emo label. Acts like Yaphet Kotto, I Hate Myself, Saetia, Hot Cross, A Day In Black And White, Funeral Diner, I Would Set Myself On Fire For You, You And I, and hosts of others came in the next decade. Most emo bands have since broken up, but there's still the occasional hold-out. Like most DIY hardcore/punk of the time, a majority found its way onto vinyl and not much else. Some people consider bands like Fugazi, and later Sunny Day Real Estate, a progression of emo, but personally, I don't quite follow that philosophy.
Often more recently, this gets intertwined with post-hardcore, and understandably so, that's nothing to make an issue of, since well shit, at least it's close.
Since the late 90s, though, bands have been emerging in the vein of Taking Back Sunday, Dashboard Confessional, and the thousands of their clones. As far as I can tell, some lazy journalist somewhere, writing an article about them, decided "Well, shit, no one knows what emo is anyways, so I'll call these bands 'emo' - sounds more appealing than bubblegum pop rock." and the spiral continued downwards into the current amalgomation of bands MTV has told everyone is 'emo'.
Somehow, people decided that 'emo' meant 'emotional' [I myself did until I recently read the article of 'emo' on urbandictionary] which is obviously bullshit, as 99% of bands make music to illicit emotion, which would make 'emotional' a completely all-encompassing genre from classical to opera to pop to rap.
The meaning & background of 'Goth':
Since this subject seems to be very controversal, i'll go through some things you may think and what you don't know.
1. Goths are suicidal.
- Ok, let me begin by saying anyone can be suicidal. Goths, preps, jocks, nerds, anyone. Just because someone dresses in black or listens to Rock music and stuff doesn't make them suicidal.
2. All goths are gay or lesbian.
- Once again, this is a topic that anyone may be, not just these guys.
3. Goths are evil/worship satan.
- This is what Catholic Fanatics made everyone believe. Ok, so they may seem dark or even scary, but that doesn't make them satanic. Satanism is a religion, not a trend.
4. All goths should die.
- I am against the killing of anyone because of their likes/dislikes/looks/tastes.
Hopefully, this guide has given you insite that no mater how different people seem, we all are capable of the same shit. But, here's one that may save you. If you don't like someone, leave them the hell alone! Don't waste your life making their's hell because they don't look or act like you.
Goth was originally a term used to describe people with a taste for certain bands [i.e- Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy, The Cure, etc.] in the '80s when punk started to fade out, and with wardrobes predominantly black.
In the 90s and early 2000s the goth subculture seemed to change to include bands such as Nirvana, Linkin Park, Slipknot, Cradle of Filth, etc.
Many goths have a cynical outlook on society and have an evolved sense of humor which has gone beyond the "Your mom" as an insult and will laugh at others, and at themselves in a healthy way. Goths don't usually care what other people think of them, and don't care if they don't fit in. Goths don't care, either what sexuality, religion, etc. other goths are.
If you shout insults after a bunch of goths, alot of the time, they might not be offended, but take pride that people are realizing that they're individuals.
Definition of 'Indie':
History: grew out from 60s garage, 70s punk, and 80s post punk it started in the mid 80s as alternative/college radio music. Once nirvana hit big the alternative genre split: the popular side was just alternative(Smashing Pumpkins, Hole, No Doubt, etc.) and the other half that wasn't mainstream (by choice or not) became indie rock (Pavement, Sebadoh, Built To Spill, etc). Some bands have signed to major labels but are still considered indie (Modest Mouse, etc.) Go figure.
Sound: In the begining indie sounded like alternative (because it was) but it grew more experimental and weird. In Britain indie has more of a typical sound like Radiohead, Muse, etc. rather than a definition based on 'the scene.'
The scene: if you really think all indie kids do is try to be cooler than other people then well, you're mostly right. The main point is, don't take the scene and the whole hipster attitude seriously. No one does.
It's mainly a gloriously vague term for 'Independant Music'. Basically unsigned or more obscure bands (It's odd that Radiohead and REM are considered indie). While the indie scene is known for it's jackass elitism, this doesn't spill over and hurt what's most important..the music. One of the few generas left that can at least carry a frickin tune without screaming like a retard or crying.
Examples of indie music over the years;
80's- Joy Division, Sonic Youth, The Smiths
90's- Pavement, Radiohead, The Pixies, Happy Mondays (Are they considered dance music or indie rock?).
Now- The Shins, Bright Eyes, Death Cab For Cutie/The Postal Service, Rilo Kelly, Modest Mouse.
Hope I've helped.
]
Hrmmm. Toughy. Well, I looked them up and they said. <br/>
<br/>
Punk - louder, faster form of rock and roll, often antiestablishment. <br/>
<br/>
Gothic - Music related to the goth subculture
Gothic rock
Gothic metal
Forms of medieval music
Some forms of classical music <br/>
<br/>
Emo - [Link](Mouse over link to see full location) <br/>
<br/>
Indie - [Link](Mouse over link to see full location) <br/>
<br/>
If that made any sense. If you get confused on Gothic music *&& Punk music im shure you could look it up on Wikipedia. lol sorry if I confused you - i kinda confused myself. lol <br/>
<br/>
Hope I Helped! <br/>
<br/>
♥ Christina
]
That's kind of a hard question to answer. I know bands like Brand New and The Yeah Yeah Yeah's are indie, Rise Against and Dropkick Murphys are punk, Matchbook Romance and My Chemical Romance are emo, and HIM and Slipknot are goth. That's just how I see it though, I'm sure a lot of people disagree.
]
They are all labels to describe the type of music it is. Punk is more well punk, thats why they call it that, it has its own feel to it. And emo, isnt not neccasarily winey and sad, like most think, emo is a musical term for like music you cant describe the words for, emo is not short for emotional either. Emo (an abbreviation of "emotionally-driven Hardcore punk") is a term now broadly used to describe almost any form of guitar-driven alternative rock that expresses emotions beyond traditional punk's limited emotional palette of alienation and rage. It is also used to describe fans of this genre, most commonly teenagers. (e.g., emo kid).
Indie, a pop group not affiliated with a major record company . And is usually more laid back.
]
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