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Wife wants kids. I don't, yet.
I really don't know how to handle my wife, how to talk to her or deal with her. We're a young married couple, I'm 26 and she's 21, been married for over a year now and been together on and off for seven.
We both want kids. She wants kids now, and I want them some day. I'm not ready to be a father, certainly not ready to be any kind of role model for anyone, and we've both got school to get through. Thing is, she'll be done with school in less than two years and I want to go to med school, which with the late start I got due to not having the money to go is going to be at least another six or seven years.
She wants to have her first kid at 25. We both know this isn't possible, but because she has the baby bug now she sees 25 as a compromise.
That's not going to happen with me. I try to avoid this conversation because that is the flat out truth, I will not be having kids with her when she is 25 and I am 30. I will still be in school, possibly med school, I will not be able to be a father during that period.
She wants a definite date, and I can't give her one. She puts it on me to answer her, and this conversation comes up about every month or two ending in a fight each time because the answer never changes. The truth is that I don't know. I'm an undergrad at a shitty community college. I don't know how long it will take to get back into a decent university via transfer, I don't know that I will get into med school the first year I apply, I don't know how things will be five years from now.
But we always come back to her point of view. "This is my priority, everything I'm doing I'm doing so we can have kids". As condescending as it probably is, I cannot take her seriously. She's 21, I'm 26 and I'm not ready to be a father, and knowing that its literally biological clock issues that keep this on her mind make it difficult for me to have any level of patience with her when she gets all over me demanding answers and timetables and making veiled threats about "maybe if our priorities are this different we need to rethink things". When I get angry at her for making empty relationship threats during irrational periods I'm the asshole. When I tell her the truth I'm the asshole. When I try to avoid the conversations entirely I'm the asshole.
I know that what she feels is real and visceral, but she knows we cannot have kids any time soon, she knows I hate her pressuring me for answers that I do not have, timetables I cannot be sure we will be able to meet.
She flat out told me it's my job to comfort her, to give her what she needs here. To me, that's unreasonable. This is a partnership, and she uses that very word against me because she has an emotional desire to have kids which in many ways outweighs the logical rational knowledge that it cannot and will not happen right now.
I'm reaching the end of my rope. She's got a billion reasons why it needs to happen as soon as possible. Every one of them is, to her, entirely valid. If I disagree with her I'm not being sensitive to her needs and feelings. If she disagrees with me her thoughts are right and mine are wrong because she's the woman and she will have to carry the thing. I mean, she's repeatedly used the "my body won't recover from the pregnancy as well if I'm older" line to justify wanting to have it sooner. She's quoting autism statistics and studies and yelling at me that the five percent increased chance of complications from 30 to 35 is something that needs to motivate me to move my ass.
She wants to see me freaking out as much as she is. Her biggest problem is that, at this point, I don't think about kids. I have too many other goals to accomplish before they are a realistic possibility, I'm fighting for us to have a cohesive life that isn't living paycheck to paycheck before kids are a desire or consideration for me. She is angry at me, I feel like, because she is a woman with hormonal urges to have kids that make her think about this daily, and I am a dude who has nothing of the sort so I am focused on our goals, the things we need to and can accomplish. She wants me to obsess about children as much as she does. She knows it isn't and won't happen, because whatever biological clock I might have is entirely overridden by logic, and it makes her mad that I don't get it and don't feel like being harassed by her because of it. I can empathize with her when she is prepared to be reasonable, but right now she is not, and I'm getting really goddamn sick of it.
Therapy is not an option (uninsured and broke) so keep that in mind and if you're under 25 you do not have the life experience to give me an opinion I will respect (no offense intended) but if you're over 25 give me a perspective, ideas, anything.
Paging Rahzie to the front.
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Want to answer more questions in the Relationships category?
Maybe give some free advice about: Families?
So, I'm going to give you the flip side. I'm a woman, older than 25, and in school right now (health field related). Harsh points first, then I'll end positively.
First, I think the reason why you're in this mess is because... you're really self centered.
You site empty threats on your wife's part, but consider that they might not be empty, or that they eventually won't be empty. This issue causes many divorces. Down the road, she may realize that if you don't sh#t or get off the pot, she could end up childless, while you could always end up having babies with a younger model down the road if you two get divorced. That thought might put her into action of finding someone new who clearly wants kids sooner rather than later.
Also, consider that, like you said, you are still in community college. You might never get into med school. It's extremely competitive. I have several friends who finally got in after 4 or 5 tries, but they started way younger than 25. You are putting your life on hold for something that might never happen.
People have kids in med school. Yes it's rough, but it can be done. If you want to wait another 9 years for you to finish school/residency, that might be unacceptable for your wife. Also, having a baby in med school is harder than having a 4 or 5 year old who goes to school and [hopefully] sleeps through the night.
Don't discount the bio clock or the statistics. For example, how do you feel about terminating a down's syndrome pregnancy? What if you wouldn't, but she would, but you want to wait to have kids to the point where it puts her at a greater chance for getting pregnant with a down's baby? (% starts increasing at 30) Women have a lot to worry about when it comes to health/bio clock that I don't think men can even BEGIN to understand or relate to. Acting like you do and then telling her she's crazy is pretty much a one way street to only getting laid if you agree to have unprotected sex when she's ovulating. It's really dumb, man. I admit, 21 is more than out of the safety fertility net, but once you hit 25-30, you are looking at the beginning of the end, and you are telling her that you're not even going to start when she's 25. Frankly, she is being rational when that makes her mad, and she's being even more rational by trying to set a timeline. The next rational step would be to leave if she wants kids more than she wants to be with you (assuming you don't want them).
And uh, yes, the body thing is totally rational. Your body bounces back so much faster when you are young. Teenagers having babies isn't a good idea, but they leave the hospital in their skinny jeans after delivering... compared to the 35 year old who will have 20 (or more) extra pounds she'll never be able to lose. Not to mention, older women are more prone to getting things like gestational diabetes and pre eclampsia. Can you relate to that? Um. No. So don't tell her it's stupid. Being pregnant is really hard on your body, and the older you get, the worse that is.
All that being said, 21, in my opinion, is really young... and yeah, she sounds EXTREMELY emotionally charged. From someone who has a uterus and raging PMS from time to time, and the occasional emotionally charged "discussion" with the love of my life... your responses may be the part of the reason why it's gotten to this point.
Here's what might help from you:
Saying something like... I really want to have kids with you because I love you. And I really want that to be a wonderful experience. You acting this way - do you think it'll help this be a loving experience? Do you think fighting like this puts me in the mood to make babies?
Giving her some type of realistic plan or working with her to discover a plan. Women are planners. Maybe you guys could post on a med school discussion board and ask med students advice about having kids in school, read the responses and talk about it. Maybe you could babysit together. Give her SOMETHING to show her that you are at least thinking about what she wants instead of completely discounting her thoughts and making the decision for her.
Focus on saying what you think in a loving way, not "you're stupid and irrational."
If things get way too heated, tell her you really want to focus on your marriage and take a break from baby makin discussions... and deliver on your promise. Woo her as if you might lose her (as if you're still dating). Think of what initially attracted you to her and tell her that. Be romantic. That will REALLY soften her up. And you don't need money to do this. You have two hands - use them! Give her a back rub.
She married you because she loves you. And she wants to have your kids... becaue she loves you. That is flattery in it's highest form. She wants to get fat, probably get some throbbing hemrrhoids, forever change her body and life... because she wants to have YOUR children.
Last thought. Be honest with yourself. Do you really want kids? Can you give her a timeline she can be happy with? If not, you need to tell her in a way that allows her to leave the relationship if she wants to. She is 21 and has plenty of time to meet someone new, fall in love, and have kids. If that's not you, don't be selfish... if you love her, you will want her to have what she wants out of life, even if that's not you.
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Paging Razhie? Dude, you just made my day. At the same time, I'm worried I won’t be able to return the favour.
So, your girlfriend. Is she being unreasonable? Yep.
People in your life - even ones you love - will occasionally be completely unreasonable.
Much more important question:
Is she being honest?
Is she being honest about her needs as she sees them? Is she being honest when she says "I need a date I can my ovaries in gear or I'm going to go bat shit crazy, make us both miserable and possibly end the relationship."?
NOTE: I’m going to give you advice on the assumption she IS being honest. Since she is your wife, I’m also going to assume you want to continue the marriage. I’m going to answer the rest of your question assuming that she isn’t insane or malicious, but it someone you love and want to be with and have children with at some point.
So, Is she being honest? I’m going to assume yes, she is.
And that is where respect come into play: You don't need to respect her behaviour around this disagreement necessarily (some of that behaviour certainly sucks the big one) but you do need to respect her enough to believe she says what she means and she means what she says.
AND you need to tell her that you are going to trust her to say what she means. Telling her you are going to take what she says seriously will help her realize she can’t shoot the breeze or make empty threats. It will remind her to take this conversation seriously – because you are going to take HER seriously.
Right now you aren’t taking her seriously, which is not only disrespectful and belittling, but she might also be taking that (unconciously) as permission to be ridiculous. Since isn’t she’s not going to be held accountable for her opinions or treated seriously anyways, she may as well just provoke you into an argument. If she feels like that is the only way to get to talk about this issue that is very important to her, then she might be willing to behave pretty badly just to feel like it’s getting discussed.
So, take from that a few new ground rules on how to approach this conversation:
Assume she is being honest with you – even when it’s tough and scary.
Tell her that is your assumption and your expectation from her.
Respect her ability to determine her own wants and needs – even if they seem crazy.
Stop belittling her, even silently in your own brain! It’s not going to help you build respectful or honest conversations.
Finally, if she says “If you really feel that way maybe we need to rethink the relationship.” Tell her “YES. We do.”. because it’s true. If you both feel honestly the way you say you, then you DO need to do some serious soul-searching (and if she is bluffing, you will have called her on it and you need to give her the opportunity to return to a serious, honest conversation about her wants and needs, and forgive her for using a hollow threat.)
I would humbly suggest to you that part your desire to not respect her position, to view her as crazy and unreasonable and unable to control her physical urges (all very belittling and slightly misogynist stands to take, even if they are true!) is a way of avoiding the worst possible part of the conversation: The part where she has said this might end your marriage. And it might. That isn’t going to go away because you don’t respect her opinion, and it isn’t going to go away if you ignore it.
That doesn’t change either your positions on the issue – yet. That simply changes the way you interact. You are aiming for the most terrifying kind of honesty now, and at the same time, you need to be the bigger person when she is behaving badly. I know I’m giving you a tall order.
Then there is the ‘convincing’ her. There a few approaches to take, although one I might favour would be the three month check-in. You both agree you can’t have a baby until she is done school, yes? Then put the conversation aside until six to three months before she graduates. Then, instead of trying to tackle the next five to seven years, try and set shorter terms goals together. Small, tackle-ably things. Set time aside for these conversations, and come prepared with the things you need to do in the next 3 months, and six months and a year, as a second list of things you’d like to do together, in the next 3 months, 6 months and year- Vacations, furniture purchases, visiting family, having friends over for dinner - all go on that list. Ask her to do the same. Compare and discuss your lists together, your goals for yourself and for the both of you. You might even find some of your personal goals surprise one another.
This achieves three things: It gives you a place to talk about the knowable future that takes more than babies into account, it helps her recognize the day to day and month to month steps you are taking towards the long term goals, and finally it will, hopefully encourage her to create some goals for herself. It’s been my life experience that most women who go baby-crazy in early twenties generally do it because they don’t have much else. Helping her to cultivate and indentify some of her own goals independent from motherhood, might help her to envision a happy baby-free life for a longer period of time than she can see right now.
Finally I’ll also say this, and please remember this comes from a 26 year old woman who doesn’t want kids AT ALL: No children for seven to ten years isn’t a very good compromise either, and one I wouldn’t advise a female friend of mine in your girlfriends position to accept purely on faith. If you love someone who has ‘being a mother’ at the center of their identity and how they wish to be in the world, asking them to wait for near a decade is probably not a reasonable expectation of them. Couple that with all the people I know in my life who have very happily had children while one person is working on thier Masters and PhDs - I have to say that although I understand your concerns - you are also becoming entrenched and unreasonable when you take a hardline position of "I can't be a father and a graduate student." That is very possible - it might not be the situation you most desire, and it certainly requires planning and sacrafice - but it is certainly within the doable.
If you go through the early work I’ve suggested on making this conversation a most honest and respectful one and she is still firm about her needs AND you wish to stay in the marriage, it might be a good time to take a deep breath and be willing to get radical about your personal plans.
Is there another country you could move too that would shorten your training time? What parts of medical practice attract you? Is nursing an option? Is a technical field, like working with medical imaging technology an option? Is a registered profession like physical therapy or occupational therapy of interest to you?
Finally, I’d ask you to remember that I’m giving advice to you, which makes it sound like I’m putting it all on you. And I am, because I’m not talking to her.
If I were talking to her I’d be giving her a novella long to-do list as well, but I’m talking to you. I’m talking to you with the assumption that you want to stay married, and that is going to mean changing your behaviour and your way of thinking, maybe even your long term plans – even if she is a selfish, unreasonable, brat who doesn’t change a damn thing – even if you are on the path to divorce.
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21 is still so very young to be having anxieties like this. I don't find it unreasonable at all to wait. However, this is obviously a big issue for her (and now she is making it a big issue for you too). This is something that needs to be taken to a third party. You are at an impasse and it doesn't sound like you are making much more progress on this issue. Worse, it is affecting your relationship. If you have the means, take this to a therapist. There are deeper issues that need to be worked out here, such as why she is so adamant about children right now, why does she feel she needs that to be happy, and why you think you're not ready to be a dad. If you can't afford a therapist (which I highly recommend, think of it as an investment), check with your church or religious institution to see if anyone there does couples counseling. Sometimes having a neutral third party can do wonders for communicating your issues in a more effective manner. Right now, you guys can't hear each other anymore (understandably). You need help to get through to each other. This is something that can most definitely be worked out. And both of you will have to bend on this issue, in some way. I wouldn't worry so much about being ready for parenthood. You'd be amazed at how having a child to care for changes you, instantly. But you are also right to think about being prepared, financially and time-wise, to care for a child. That is a smart thing. So definitely go get help together. Because no matter what you guys decide to do, bringing a child into a strained marriage can only make things worse. This, I know! Good luck.
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I'm under 25, but engaged, own a house and have loads of life experience under my belt.
First off, this is something that should have been discussed BEFORE marriage. You should have had more than enough warning that she wanted children earlier than you. That's where you're at fault. You rushed into marriage without getting your life priorities sorted out with each other first. What's done is done, though, so you've got to move on from here.
Your wife is at fault because she's being incredibly childish about it. You know what? I want to have children too. I haven't finished school yet, and we're not in a stable position yet, so I'm sucking it up until then. Your wife is an adult, and she is fully capable of making a mature, reasonable decision. If she isn't, then she certainly shouldn't be having children yet. Just because she's hormonal doesn't mean she can't be mature and think of your wishes as well as her own.
Really, you should be discussing it with her. Tell her that you would love to have children too, but that it just isn't possible right now. She knew ahead of time that you wanted to go to medical school, so she can't blame you for dropping it on her. Tell her she can't threaten you into it. If you have to, stop having sex with her if you can't trust her not to sabotage birth control.
You both need to sort out your priorities, separately and together. Are you prepared to divorce if she puts children ahead of your need to go to medical school? Is she prepared to live with you giving up medical school (including your disappointment, the financial difference) in order to have what she wants now? Work together to sort out budgets for all possible options so that she can see what will work and what won't.
You also need to stop letting her bully you. You're not an asshole for being responsible. Call her bluff when she makes empty threats. Stop bowing to her rage. She's attempting to emotionally blackmail you, which is just not acceptable. Tell her that you know what she's doing and you're not going to take it.
One last suggestion: do you/can you have a pet? We got a dog, and he fulfills most of my baby urges. Just a thought... they're much less expensive and lower commitment than a baby.
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