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Debate topics.
I have some questions that I could never figure out. And I was wondering if any of you had any good explanations: Why is it that when someone doesn't agree with homosexuality, they are labeled as a "homophobic"? Phobic is like "phobia." And phobia means "fear." So just because you don't like it, it automatically makes you scared of it? And why is it okay to make a "gay only" school or some kind of organization, but if there was a "straight only" school..it would be unfair?
Also, why is it that some people believe that abortion is alright when the baby is inside your womb, but when the second it is out..it's murder? People will say that the baby isn't born yet. But that shouldnt matter, because it's still a living human being. Just because it's not fully developed, doesnt make it's non-existant?
I guess I just wanted a better understanding about these two topics. Thank you for your time.
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Phobia itself has two different meanings when it's attached to a word. When attached to "arachno" it means a fear of spiders. When attached to "photo", as in photophobia, it means a strong aversion to light. So depending on the word you're attaching it to, it can mean either fear or strong aversion.
Homophobia is defined as a strong aversion to homosexuals or homosexuality.
As for why it's okay to have a "gay only" club, what about all-girl schools? Men's clubs? Ethnocentric schools? Christian schools? Isn't all of this discrimination in some form or another? It's the same reason why guys at my university weren't allowed to open a "Chauvinist Club" even though there was a Feminist Club already in practice. You can't really unite in putting other people down, but you can unite in supporting a cause. It's a little something called "love thy neighbour". Even if you're straight, you can often join GLBTQ groups. I've gone to trans support groups with a friend of mine, and I've learned so much.
These people have it rough, especially from people with this mindset. I know a guy who has escaped up here to Canada because of the attitude towards gay people in his home state. He's practically a refugee. In places that aren't tolerant and open-minded, they face bullying, intimidation, being beaten up, being ostracized or even murdered. Sometimes their parents cast them out of the family, or refuse to admit that they're gay. They go through a lot, and sometimes a body just needs support and understanding.
As for abortion, I hate the "you're either pro-choice or pro-life" thing. Does that mean that everyone who supports the availability of legal abortions will go out and kill babies because they're anti-life? I'm what you'd call pro-choice, but personally I would not get an abortion. What? That makes no sense! All y'all pro-choicers are babykillers!
A common misconception. Do you know what happens when abortions are illegal? Women go to back-alley clinics, get sketchy abortions in dirty places and then end up dying from infections. Women are forced by their partners to take drugs and medications to try and kill the fetus. Women are pushed or jump down the stairs to try and lose the baby. Or the girl who is raped and gets pregnant kills herself because she can't see a future where she has a stranger's baby. It's a choice between this, and the unnecessary deaths of hundreds of women, or providing legal abortions and allowing thousands of unwanted children to enter the world and go directly into the adoption/foster system.
What about one of my friends, who uses condoms and birth control pills and STILL managed to get pregnant? She is in university, not steadily dating the guy, and clinically depressed. Pregnancy would have been dangerous for her. What about a women who should not get pregnant because it would be harmful to her health? Or a rape or incest victim? These people should all have access to abortion.
Me? If I was to get pregnant, it would suck because I'd have to quit school. However, I'm engaged and own my own house. I could handle it, because I know the father's going to be there. I made sure of that before I started having sex with him. If only most people could be that responsible or lucky, we wouldn't get into these messes, but it just doesn't work that way.
One more thing to keep in mind is that in the first and second trimester, the fetus isn't capable of living on its own. Third trimester abortions are illegal, and second trimester are only available in medical emergencies. Look up some fetal development charts - at 8 weeks, it's more like a tadpole than a human being. That's why people can say it's not a person; because it isn't. It's a potential person. At that point, you're killing potential, not a human being who can think and talk.
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Homophobic. Let me answer your question with an example of another word: anti-semitic. People understand it as meaning anti-jewish, but semitic is actually a word that refers to all semitic people, including all the first members of Christianity and Islam. If you are a Christian you are also following a semitic religion.
The word semitic had it's meaning changed and it entered common use as something other then what it originally meant. The same thing happened to homophobic. You are right about breaking the word down into it's parts, and that is an important thing to know, but you also need to understand that that is basically how we get ALL words. They start off meaning one thing, and through the way people use them, they begin to mean other things.
Regardless of what it is called, the law, and most people who study it that I've read, would agree with this definition of an intolerance or prejudice: If you believe that a quality which a person cannot control is a primary determinant of their value or believe them to be less moral, less dignified or deserving of less under the law than another group, that's a discrimination.
To answer your question about schools. I'll ask you this questions:
Why does the government provide Medicare for people over a certain age? Or even things like food stamps? Why are there special schools for the deef?
The short answer is because they need those services to stay alive and to have any chance at being productive in society. People might disagree about how *much* you should provide people with state assistance, but everybody knows that if you take it away ENTIRELY it actually ends up costing everybody way more in crime and in damages to all aspects of public life.
So why are there organizations for particular groups? (I have to say, I have never heard of a state sponsored school for homosexuals, only non-for-profit programs... but maybe you've heard of something I haven't.)
Because the cost, in suicides, in violence, in policing, in poverty, in jail time and the cost of loosing all of those young people as possible productive (tax paying!) members of society to discrimination that makes them less likely to participate in society and to physical harm, is more expensive and damaging to society. They get it, because they can demonstrate a need, and that it is something that can help them create value in their communities in ways they wouldn't be able too otherwise.
It's not a perfect argument, and of course we can always argue about how *much* support a group should get. However, it is silly not to recognize that some groups will make a phenomenally greater positive impact on society if their needs are met.
Would you have the same problem with a school for the blind?
As for abortion... I think you really need to research the pro-choice position before you question it. Almost no pro-choice groups support abortion right up till the moment of birth. Most of them, support unfettered access between the 1 to 20 week mark, and limited access to abortion later then that in cases where a mothers life is at risk.
I believe, when you look at the development inside the womb, it is fair to say there is a time early on where it is not a human being yet, only a mass of cells with the potential to become human. Now, some people wouldn't want to abort even then, but I don't believe we should restrict women who would choose too abort on at that time because of the beliefs of other people. I, like most pro-choicers, believe there should be a line after which abortion is no longer an option. It is simply a matter of listening to doctors and scientists and choosing the best rules that respect both the woman's choice and beliefs and the point at which a fetus becomes a viable human being. It is not that the fetus doesn't exist, it's that is doesn't always exist as a human being. Water always exists, but only under certain conditions does it exist as ice.
Obviously these are really dense topics and people feel very differently about them. I would agree that homophobic isn't a very accurate word to describe people who discriminate against homosexuals, but it is the common and understood word. I don't believe in segregated schools for homosexuals and I certainly don't think abortion should be a legal procedure right up until delivery! Not by a long shot.
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anonymous -
First off, people don't automatically label people homophobes if they don't like homosexuals. I don't know where you got that idea from. People are labeled homophobes for a good reason.
Also, I have never heard of a gay/straight only school. Yes it would be unfair because it is highly discriminatory and prejudice of the school system to do so. In my old high school, there is called a Gay and Straight Alliance club, joining both social groups to better understand one another and to address the problem appropriately.
About the topic of abortion, if you had done some research, those who are in the Pro-Life movement believe abortion is wrong all within itself. Abortion is basically ending the life of the fetus before it is born, so it wouldn't be referred as abortion if it is already delivered after the 9 months, out of the womb. Under special cases does abortion procedures take place after 24 weeks in to the pregnancy and even then is it not fully developed.
If you really want to understand more about the topics, I'd suggest doing some extensive research rather than asking a bunch of teens.
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