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Is there truly an answer to this?
Okay. Long story short. I have religious Mormon friend. Religious as in very, very religious. Anyhow, we got into a discussion tonight at "impure thoughts" He seems to think it's a "selfish want" to think impurely about others. I said that it's impossible to be rid of them, that by repressing it them you are not getting rid of them, just concealing them and they will just build up. I said that what you need to do is deal with them and get them out of your system.
Now I feel really bad about the things I said. I guess it's because I should respect the fact he's pure rather than encourage him not to be. lol. I feel bad for him as I feel he is a little misguided and placing unnecessary restraints on himself. Does anyone agree with me on what I said to him? Is it impossible to debate with religious people? At the time I seemed to make a lot of sense. But now I'm thinking and maybe he is right. Should we avoid discussions like this in the future? Does someone with some experience with religion have an religious answer to this?
Thanks.
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You didn't say anything wrong in my opinion. Just because (I'm assuming here from what you said) you're not a devoutly religious person doesn't mean that you should keep your thoughts to yourself to avoid stepping on other people's toes.
You weren't encouraging him to be impure, you were just expressing your beliefs-- & since you weren't being disrespectful, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. If you feel that further discussions may jeopardize your friendship, then perhaps you should refrain from them in the future. But as long as you can both remain open-minded, discussions like these can be educational for both of you. You can learn to better understand the restraints he's under & respect them regardless of whether or not he agrees with them, & he can learn that he's entitled to feel as he wish, but he shouldn't judge anyone if they have "impure thoughts".
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Yes, I completely agree with what you said to him. People who are extremely religious often get easily offended when debating with them, so if you want to ever get in a religious debate, make sure it is with someone who is less easily-offended. As an atheist, I often find myself getting into religious discussions with some friends, which sometimes end in fighting. It all depends on how offended the person will get. People who are overly-religious are generally not open minded to other ideas. I am -not- trying to stereotype religious people, and I know that some people are both religious and open minded, but I am just telling you about what I find to be the majority of the people. If I were you, I would avoid conversations like this in the future with him.
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If you go by what religion says, it is wrong to think impure thoughts but we are all human and all humans are considered sinners. Therefore, while it might be considered wrong, it's going to happen anyway and I think it's useless to try to stop it because having such a restraint on one's thoughts can be dangerous. Your friend will likely realize this as time goes on ... I suggest to just let him figure that out for himself and possibly avoid the subject in the future if you think it will cause issues.
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I am mormon. I think that thinking that way about people is wrong and no one should do it until they are married. Every religion will tell you that thinking impurely is wrong and a sin. The best thing is to not make him do anything and let him think the way he wants. He wants to be pure then i guess he can try and be pure.
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You said you should "respect the fact he's pure...". But that's not entirely correct. What you should respect is the fact that his beliefs are different than yours. You need to realize that your belief that "it's impossible to be rid of impure thoughts" actually sets the stage for your experience of impure thoughts, just as your friend's belief in the impropriety of having impure thoughts sets the stage for his experiencing only pure thoughts.
In other words, because you learned that impure thoughts are unavoidable, for you the only choices are to deal with them or repress them. However, your Mormon friend learned that impure thoughts are optional, so for him it's a simple matter of not opting to think impurely about other people. For your friend, the impure thought is not unavoidable...it is optional. Do you see how different beliefs (starting points) lead to different experiences (destinations)?
The most important lesson I want to pass on to you is that BOTH of you have legitimate claims on your beliefs and your experiences. You are both "right", in a sense. You both have an inalieable right to believe as you do and see the world as you do. Neither of you can avoid it. Noboday can. We must all see the world in some particular way, or we couldn't make decisions. The plurality of beliefs and lifestyles existent in the world follow naturally from this quality of mind, namely that each mind constructs its world. The reason many people can agree GENERALLY on an observed event is that the observed event really happened independently of the minds that perceived it. The reason why none of these observers will agree EXACTLY on the observed event is that each person's experience of the event is, in the fine details, unique, because each person has a unique collection of remembered experiences.
It is memory of past experiences that allows us to "predict" what will happen THIS time. And it is the ability to predict that has survival value.
I see from reviewing your question that you were seeking a "religous answer" to your question, and I have irreverently failed you. However, consider for a moment what I have told you. Nothing I have said refutes religous beliefs. Constructivism may actually shed some light for you on the VARIETY of religious experience. Even a congregation in a single church will agree GENERALLY on their religious beliefs but disagree on some finer points of doctrinal interpretation. Both their general agreement and specific disagreement are legitimate and natural--and completely unavoidable. This is why a nation is stronger for being accepting of diversity (plurality). This is why separation of church and state and freedom of religion have worked so well for our nation.
I do not think you should avoid these types of discussions with your Mormon friend. However, in the future, rather than trying to change each other's minds, try to understand each other's points-of-view.
Peace,
Dr. Chad
P.S. YES, it is impossible to DEBATE with religious people. Impossible and detrimental to any relationship you have with them.
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This is a complex issue and one that cannot be adequately answer on a site such as this. I’m going to try to give you a simplified answer. You are both right. He is right because if you develop a thought pattern of positive (pure) thoughts then it is healthier for you. Your body responds to thought patterns. Negative (impure) thoughts can also affect everything from how people treat you to your success in life. People can create hypertension and other diseases by maintaining a negative (impure) emotional thought pattern. Have you ever heard of someone who gets so mad that they have a stroke? This can actually happen. So, maintaining a positive (pure) attitude will create for you the life you want. You will be more successful in life. People will respond to you, in the majority of instances, in a more helpful and happy way. You will notice that people who start off with negative (impure) attitude will calm down eventually if you are positive (pure) with them. Now you are right about it being difficult for negative (impure) thoughts from popping in your head. The reason is because people are out of practice in thinking in positive (pure) thoughts. It takes practice. Our environment is bombarded with negative (impure) feedback. Just look at what is happening in T.V., movies, books, magazines, school, etc. Just listen to the conversations people have among themselves. They use phrases like, “I can’t”, “it’s impossible”, I won’t”, it will never happen”. It is all around us. Once you become practiced in negative (impure) thoughts it is near impossible to stop it. It is extremely addictive. So, unless you start strengthening your mental capacity to develop positive (pure) thoughts you will be bombarded with negative (impure) thoughts. There will be nothing you can do about it. But if you want to change this for yourself simply accept there is a possibility for change. You see body builders strengthening their bodies by working out. Their muscles become larger and stronger. Well, if you practice positive (pure) thoughts your ability becomes larger and stronger. This is what Mormons do. If you don’t want to become a Mormon there are other ways to achieve this goal. You can start meditating/praying. This can clear your negative (impure) thought patterns and help yourself to achieve a world you’ve never thought possible. Since this issue is complicated and I am unable to hit on all of the complexities of this issue adequately here I’ve included some websites for you. There are numerous books, websites and scientific research dedicated to this issue.
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I hope this helps.
LULABELLE
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From what I've been taught, your friend is right to certain extent. However, everyone has impure thoughts. It's practically impossible to repress them all and that's ok. The idea is not to be rid of the thoughts, but struggle against acting on them. Granted, thinking about that kind of thing all the time can be avoided, but it will still happen (unless someone is in constant prayer, which is incredibly hard to do). I personally don't see impure thoughts as selfish, being natural, but the thoughts or actions that can develop from them are a problem.
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