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Who believes that 9/11 was planned by the government so we'd have an excuse
to Invade Iraq?
There's so much evidence. It is really pissing me off.. how the government is getting away with this. Why did we go to war with Iraq? to steal their oil? like all those people they are killing.. you cannot fight a "war on terror". you cant fight against people's emotions. if you want people to start liking america you think fighting a war with them, killing their people and destroying their land is going to make them love us? bloody idiots. it will only make more people want to join those groups that want to attack America. its okay for people to have a religion as long as they are tolerant of the other beliefs people have.. the whole Taliban and Al Qaeda thing isnt the first time people had extreme beliefs they want to enforce on others. America is guilty of that themselves anyways. And when I say America, I'm referring to the government and whoever decides these matters. Like just because a country doesn't believe in capitalism and democracy, we should punish them! like cuba! because what america says is the only right thing in this world! bullllllllll shiiiiit. Why are things so difficult.. why do we have democrats and republicans? maybe we need philosophers to be in office. i mean it was philosophers who like made those early Patriots want to rebel against british rule back in the revolutionary war. now its republican this, democrat that. why do people have to put themselves in these little boxes like that? why cant people just all talk together about whats the best thing for the country and the world.. but no they get corrupted and are greedy. america talks about how corrupt other governments are when we are very corrupt ourselves. im sick of the hypocrises. why cant people man up. Im hoping Obama and the administration can just get the job done. Like there are some people who hate obama and want all these bad things to happen to him. like hello what the hell, that is just anti american. because if our president and the administration effs up, then WE pay the price!!! who wants that? so everyone better be hoping obama is good.. and yeah i think its sad there are some republicans who just want him to fail like that and then claim they are super american and everything. like same with bush.. like i think he was one of our worst presidents but while he was president i was still hoping he'd do good, despite what happened in the past. Honestly, I wish I could be a president so I could set things straight. But I wasnt born in America (UK. i live in America now though cause my parents moved my family here) and there's too much.. petty things that get in the way. But yeah, that ends my rant.
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Matt, did you really just say that?
Why haven't we had whistle blowing on our black ops? Why don't we know what the CIA is up to?
I'm not saying that there is conclusive proof out there that the government was behind it. But to say that its not possible is the height of idiocy. Our government is opaque, not transparent.
If it did happen, we'd get about as much information about it as we have at this point. And I wish I could find the two videos I've seen.
One is live news footage from outside the pentagon. The damage done before anyone on the scene was NOT in line with what would have been done by the kind of plane they claimed at the speed it would have been going. If the Pentagon had actually been hit by a plane, we would have lost at least a fifth of the building from jet fuel fires alone. Not blasted a ragged hole in the side consistent with a small missile hit.
There are photos of the inside showing offices with little to no burn damage, and we're supposed to believe that a plane that had taken off less than an hour before crashed there? Bullshit.
Also, I've seen a video of the tower collapse. I understand the physics involved, but the video clearly shows a plume of smoke about 10 stories down from the mass of shit from the collapsing floors.
The exact kind of plume of smoke you see when a base charge detonates during a controlled demolition.
No one can prove what happened with any certainty, and alot of the evidence has been suppressed or ignored. If nothing else, Bush was handed paperwork on 9/11 that said that they believed that there might be an attack that day, which he ignored.
Our government was likely not "behind" 9/11. Terrorists are very real, and Bin Ladens group is very real and so is their hatred for us (after we created their organization in the first place some years ago). But our government definitely stepped aside and let it happen. We've got enough information to know that.
They did it at Pearl Harbor too. We knew an attack was coming, pulled every air craft carrier we had out of the area, and kept the entire base at minimal readiness for an attack. Essentially, the base was left wide open so that we had our excuse to join the war.
9/11 is no different.
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who the hell knows? seriously. you know what its been like to fight these wars? a fucking freakshow. this is what happens when you have no clear or defined plan to end a war, but a helluva good plan to start it. well hell, we didn't even have that in the iraq model.... now as for here in afghanistan...that was a good plan until rummy fucked the dog and let bin laden escape. now as for the "killing folks and destroying their country to make them like us"...that actually worked in europe...but that was because of the marshall plan. we have a saying out here; for every dude you kill, it creates twenty more enemies. which is one of the reasons why we're trying the "buddy buddy" approach...the other is beacause you folks can't stand the thought of*gasp* soldiers fighting a war.. good lord seriously, imagine having to do brain surgery with a broadsword. thats what this is like. now on to the rest of your rant(you called it a rant, and I'm not going to disagree), read "The Republic" by plato. sure, it sounds dandy and all to have a true republic ran by a ruling class of benevolent philosophers....but you're dealing with humans. and humans aren't all benevolent. as for cuba, THEY PARKED NUCLEAR FUCKING MISSILES IN OUR BACKYARD! Any nation on this planet reserves the right to tell another to go to hell based on seemingly insignificant rhetoric such as "the beurgoise capitalist pigs will sell us the rope we use to hang them". North Korea tells the whole world to go to hell on a regular basis, is that okay? to me it is, even though a third of that country's population lives in slave labor camps. and why? because the nutcase in charge will eventually die, and then we can resume normal relations with that country. its either that, or roughly fifty thousand americans will have to die to prove a point. so ignoring the sociopath countries and not conducting trade with them is a great option to me. now for your point on "America is guilty of that themselves anyways. And when I say America, I'm referring to the government and whoever decides these matters" big freakin deal, the period before this recent clusterfuck of a war was called "the Pax Americana" an incredible period of relative peace throughout the world. because we acted like a schoolyard bully and made it peaceful. we're not right all the time, just when we have superior firepower, and by that I mean all the time. face it, as much as America hates to admit it, we've got a pretty nice empire going, we dominate every square inch of this planet, and we've proven ourselves to be the least incompetent country in the world. not the most competent, just the country thats fucked up the least. not talking socially of course, but more in the geopolitical realm.
now as for the politics.... thats the reason why I'm not coming home. its funny what five years of fighting will do to a person's sense of patriotism. don't get me wrong, I believe in the constitution and the right of all people to be free, I just don't believe the system is functioning anymore. when the aim of both parties is to create a bigger government and use laws to dictate personal behavior all the way down to how they can discipline their kids and forcing people to have healthcare or face fines...fuck that. the government should not be setting my moral compass or have its hand in my wallet.... the people should not fear their government, but rather the government should fear the people. and thats why the bill of rights exists; to leave the american people a means to defend themselves against those who fancy themselves their betters. both parties do the same thing to the other whenever one has power...its the natural order of things to conduct underhanded drug-dealing and bad-mouthing. its what politicians do. just like you accuse the american system of being petty, I accuse you. every little thing that civilians care about.....petty. I care about whether I'm going to be shot or blown up when I go to sleep at night, whether I'll be carried off a C-17 in a flag draped coffin with cameras flashing as I become part of another statistic..... fuck it. until somebody comes knocking on my door demanding I start paying my taxes, I'm going to continue to invest little emotion into the issue. I have more important shit to deal with, like answering your question, or staying alive through this hell that is called stop-loss.
hope I answered your rant successfully with this counter-rant.
with love,
Gunner
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Someone has obviously been watching Loose Change and Zeitgeist.
Someone has obviously been fooled by a Windows Movie Maker editing job, out of context quotes, and misconstrued facts.
There is literally, and I can assure you of this, zero evidence of 9/11 being government sponsored. Period. I've watched every single video and seen every single piece of "evidence" completely and utterly refuted. Name evidence, I will debunk it.
Just because you don't agree with the actions of the U.S. doesn't mean it would attack its own people. That's so idiotic its embarrassing to even suggest.
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There is no rational reason to think the US planned 9/11.
Frankly, they simply don't have their shit that together. Couldn't clean up Orleans, couldn't convince the UN or find bin Laden... They just aren't capable of that kind of wide-scale secrecy and coordinated attack. I'm not sure any government could pull it off, certainly not the Bush admin. Too many people would have to be in the know and someone would blow the whistle if the government was actually involved. They just weren't directly involved.
Of course, after the fact, the tragedy of 9/11 was obviously used to justify some actions that hindsight has shown it was not actually a valid justification for. I think most people can agree to that now.
I think everything else you said here makes a lot of sense. You are right that the philosophy, both conservative and liberal and every other kind of political philosophy that inspired the founding fathers has been pretty much shit all over in the last few years. Politicians are acting like they are playing a dirty game of cards, where they will do anything to 'win' for their side, even lie and frighten people, instead of being part of a responsible government for the people.
Just because you can't be president doesn't mean you can't help. The president isn't all powerful! Look at what a hard time Obama is having doing what he thinks would be right. It's not like he just gets to fix everything in accordance with his ideas just 'cause he's the president! There are many other people involved in helping to make their communities better. You can do little things: Volunteer for organizations you think are important, even political candidates if there is one you really believe in. Even just standing up to people you age, when they buy into some of the mindless hate going on in American politics right now, and saying “Hold up a second. There are two sides to that story! Even if you don't agree with what they are doing, demonizing them doesn't make sense!”
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