I've been dating this girl for a while now and I think I want to marry her. She's a very adventurous girl who likes to try new things. That's part of what I love about her.
Early in our relationship she told me about a threesome she had with with two guys. She said she didn't like it very much but given an opportunity wouldn't rule out trying it again. But stated had no interest in doing that kind of thing with me because she loved me and wouldn't want to ruin things. On top of this she's had sex with a fair amount of guys, 10-15, she hasn't been sexually active that long.
I have no reason to distrust her in our relationship and she's always been faithful to other boyfriends. I can appreciate that, I've had sex with quite a few women but have always been faithful, along with a three some myself.
I love her to death but it really eats me up inside. I just feel like that's such a slutty thing to do. We've talked about it and I explained how I feel about it but I avoid discussing it further because I don't want to beat a dead horse. She acknowledges it wasn't her best moment and understands how I feel.
-Much of this is my own insecurities
-Doesn't mean I can't trust her
-There is a double standard, guys get laid, girls give it up
-Her past is her past
-I should "just get over it"
-The adventurousness is why I love her
I just don't know how to "get over it" it really eats me up but I don't want to have this ruin our relationship because I harbor these feelings of resentment.
Swanson answered Wednesday December 26 2007, 5:59 pm: I realize that I am way behind on this question, but it is something that I am in the final stages of dealing with myself, so I'm writing this partially as therapuetic closure on the issue, and partially because I think this will be searched for by a lot of guys based on how many other threads there are about "my girlfriend's past" and dealing with it.
I was in the exact same boat as you. I have never been somebody that cared about someone's "number", and never had a problem discussing pasts, or even meeting ex-boyfriends. I could seperate the past from the here and now, no problem. Or so I thought. I am now 31 years old, and I had thought that maybe I had been in love before - but oh no. definitely not. it smacked me right in the mouth with this one.
As I said, I have never really had a problem with discussing pasts, and this girl is relatively open about sexual issues as well, so we had revealed our "numbers" to each other just while exchanging stories before we even knew that there'd be an "us" - and no problems there. Then one night, one of the first that we had had sex, and when feelings were starting to mount, we were just bs'ing about some craziness, and I let out that I once had (or at least tried to have, but we'll address that later) an MFF threesome. I don't know why I said it, maybe a brief moment of machismo, or to make myself seem daring, or a "commodity", but boy was I unprepared for what came next - she quickly responded with "oh yeah, I was with three guys once." ummm....what??!?!?
I didn't really think about it for a while. However, as the feelings for her began to mount, every once in a while it would pop into my head. in fact, one night, we were out in public with a group of people, and during some stupid conversation about "porn names" or something, I blurted something totally inappropriate out about it, and although (luckily) only she got what I meant, it still should never have happened. so that night we talked about it a little more, and I kind of told her that it grossed me out a little, but whatever. she told me it was a one-time thing and that was it. I buried it again and we started hanging out even more regularly.
then one week, probably three months after I had met her, I had to travel for work. I had been spending loads of time with her, and this was the first time that I had been away for a while, and it really hit me how much I missed her. we had a great talk and everything was kosher...until BOOM the nightmare vision popped into my head. it really fucked with me that night, more than ever - probably because this was when I realized that I might be truly falling in love for the first time ever. and maybe subconsciously that scared me, and I felt the need to sabotage it. in any event, I couldn't sleep that night. I couldn't even think about anything else.
The next day, despite being away, I confronted her. and I did so at work. and although I didn't last out at her or call her a whore or anything, I did make her feel terrible, like I was "disappointed" in her. she told me that that night was SO insignificant to her, it was a one time thing, she regrets it to a degree, but she can't take it back and what can we do to get over this. We had a fight on the phone later that night, she told me that I was being judgemental and unfair (she was right) and I told her I needed some time to process this but I'd come over when I got back in town and we'd discuss. Well, the instant that I saw her, everything changed - she was the person that I was falling for again, not the harlot I had created in my head, and I felt totally miserable for knowing what I put her through that day.
so what happened? simple. it's the primal/programmed male instinct to tend to pigeonhole women in one of two ways - A) whores/pieces of ass and B) our saintly mothers/wives, when in reality, all women fall somewhere in between. that's where dudes derive that complex - they struggle with the notion that any girl that is in category B for them could EVER be in category A for anyone else, even if they've had tons of category A women of their own. of course the reality is that all women have been category A, hell, even our mothers. I know that this is stupid male ego/insecurity bullshit, and I thought that I was way too mature for this - however, as far as love goes I was basically fifteen - this was totally uncharted territory for me. so after my day of immaturity and insecurity, I realized all of this...so everything was cool, and we were past this for sure now, right?
Wrong. I was temporarily pacified by the new found feelings, but I was far from done with dealing with this. I was cool for about a week, and then BAM it smacked me again. and a lot harder this time. I was thinking about this incident at totally random intervals, getting nightmarish visuals, the whole nine. and being around her wasn't helping things like it did before. It was just planted firmly in my stomach...terrible.
So it then became a debate between logic and emotion - on the one hand, much like the guy asking the question, I'm thinking why do I, who wasn't present or even in the picture at the time, care so much about something that she, who actually participated in it, considers so insignificant? why am I so insecure? why am I upholding a double standard? I know she's nuts about me, why can't I get past this? but then the emotional side takes over, and the thought of this sweet girl who is still cutely self-conscious about being naked in front of me being used by this group of guys was too much to bear - it infuriated me.
but deep down, I knew I had to get over it, and I knew that once I did, everything would seem trivial. I thought about it, I read about it, and it seemed to me that the problem on the surface was simply that I was totally uninformed about the entire concept of the MMF threesome (or in this case the MMMF, but whatever, same concept). I had debunked the myth about the MFF threesome (again, later on that), but all that I (and a large percentage of the hetero male population) knew about MMF threesomes was A) how they were marketed and portrayed in porno and B) that I had absolutely no interest in participating in one, and probably couldn't even if I did. not because I thought that it was "for fags" but just because I had no interest. it just wouldn't work for me. and as we know, the way that anything with multiple guys is marketed and perceived is that part of the "eroticism" is derived from the implied element of domination and degradation. so my vision of this whole thing? a bunch of guys getting off on treating my girlfriend like a whore, and her willingly putting herself in this position. I'm automatically victimizing her, as guys are apt to do. crazy, right?
not only that, there was a bigger problem involved. a problem that I think is the root of so many "jealous boyfriend" issues, and even indicative of many guys' entire perception of women. I was scared that perhaps I was too sexually inhibited for my girlfriend. First of all, what I haven't said yet was that the MFF "threesome" that I had was a total joke. It was with a girl I was seeing and another girl, and I didn't get into it right from the beginning. not that I was intimidated by the girls getting "too into each other" or whatever, I just realized at that moment how important the personal/connective element of sex was for me - and the presence of another girl didn't turn me on more, it just ended up ruining that. it was like fake tits, I thought it would be awesome but it ended up sucking. now that's not to say that it sucks for everyone - I'm sure for the right people they love it, but it wasn't for me - just too impersonal. and that's the root of the problem and the insecurity about men. it's not sexual experience that I think bothers them, it's the idea of being less uninhibited - it undermines the whole idea of being the "MAN" in the bedroom. that's why it's so much easier for men to label a sexually uninhibited woman a "slut" or a "victim" - it demeans them and makes them less threatening to our egos.
so how did I fix everything? simple. I just asked her about it instead of tucking it away. I asked her to tell me exactly what happened so that I could have a frame of reference, because no matter how bad it was it couldn't be as bad as how I pictured it. and of course, the porno scene that I had envisioned with guys high-fiving and treating her like dirt was TOTALLY inaccurate. what I really heard about was a group of drunk college kids on vacation that tried something that they thought might be wacky (initiated by her, no less), got into for about five minutes, all felt weird and silly about it, and thus, at least in her case, the end of her experimentation with that sort of thing. it ended up being so different that the shit I had in my end that by the end of the story I was almost smiling. Not only that, upon realizing that her "foray" into group sex was as short-lived as mine, it curbed my worries about being too inhibited around her too. everything felt fine, and it's been about a month now and anytime I think about that it's only to apologize to her for being so silly. it's awesome.
So that's my suggestion - ask about it. If your only perception of the MMF threesome comes from what YOU think that the guys are thinking during it (again, this applies to a large part of the hetero population) - you're probably totally wrong with what went down. hearing about it from the girl's perspective should quell your nightmare a bit. DO NOT, however, attempt to get over it by taking solace in the fact that she "feels bad about it" or regrets it - that's just going to make you resent it more and slowly, and illogically, erode your opinion of her - you haven't really gotten over it that way, and really, if she's a smart girl, she's going to realize that she SHOULDN'T feel bad about it and might dump your self-centered ass.
however, once the male ego and general gender issues are weeded through - there is one potential problem that can arise. I was fortunate in that one of the things that was revealed from our discussion is that when it comes down to it, we were really at the same level of experimentation when it comes to sex - pretty damn boring. not that our sex isn't superb, because it is, but that neither of us really gets anything out of going that far outside the box. however, if having your girl talk about it and having this kind of discussion reveals that you and your girl are on different wavelengths as far as your inhibition levels, that could be a problem that goes way beyond your jealousy. obviously if you're kind of bashful about sex and your girlfriend is into water sports and choking, that's eventually going to become an issue. if that's the case, either you need to loosen up or she needs to understand that you're never going to be that guy. but at least getting over the jealousy and soap opera in your head will allow you to address this real issue.
finally, for any ladies reading this, there is the debate of "should the girl even discuss her past to begin with?" my answer: it depends. although I think that honesty is certainly important, there are certain things that can be withheld not to be deceitful, but simply because of their irrelevance. this actually was probably one of them, although there was no way of her to know that - since it was of no signficance to her, and she has no plans of revisiting it or anything like it, there's no point. however, if it was something that you did like and envisioned wanting or needing to do again, then you should definitely say it, and if the guy balks, then perhaps he's too inhibited for you, point blank. [ Swanson's advice column | Ask Swanson A Question ]
ammo answered Monday March 26 2007, 9:01 pm: Hmm, this is something I have heard before from friends and such about their girlfriends but as you had stated in your question, you have also done pretty much the same things yourself so I usually tell my friends that they are in no position to judge someone’s past anymore than they are in a position to judge theirs.
However, this said I know myself how it can eat away at you (I had gone through the same phase with my ex girlfriend as well) but truth be told sometimes you never really 'get over it'. You just have to live with it.
If she is everything you want in a person (which I guess she is if you are considering marrying her) then her past isn't something that you should allow to get in the way of what you have in the now and what you can both build for yourselves in the future. This kind of issue is the kind of thing that Christina Aguilera confronted in one of her track (Cant Hold Us Down I believe). How if a guy sleeps with a lot of girls it's considered cool but if a girl does it she's called a slut or a whore.
These are just insecurities within yourself that you need to conquer. It may take time but try placing yourself in her place. She could very well feel the same resentment towards you for the things in your past. If every person did this then there is no hope for any relationship ever working out unless every person remains celibate until their wedding night (not something I can see happening to be honest).
Forgive me for being blunt, you need to leave her past where it is - in the past, and focus on what you have with her now. Do you really want to ruin what you have over something she did (and you have done too) in the past but is something you can't let go of because you maybe can't stand knowing that she has been with guys other than you? [ ammo's advice column | Ask ammo A Question ]
ScratchesOnTheWall answered Monday March 26 2007, 7:35 pm: Ok man, this is a toughie because you're already aware of all the things that should 'help'. But I know exactly the kind of thing you're describing where you can rationalise it into hell and back and still not get some part of your brain to be ok with it, so here's my best shot:
Basically, as you obviously realise, this is such a big problem because you're in a relationship with her and in some way the things she does/has done impact on you in a way they wouldn't on, say, her friends. I presume that since you have a strong enough relationship to want to marry her that it's also based on friendship. So would it at all be possible to sit down with her and ask her to tell you about the situation- what led up to it, what made her want to try it out, how she felt about it afterwards- as though you were kind of a best friend she was confiding in?
I know it sounds crazy and I don't necessarily mean get all the details of the actual act. But, if you could put aside your 'boyfriend' head for a little while, get the emotional side of it and put the incident in context of the life of the woman you love, you might be able to stop seeing it as just a horrible or 'slutty' concept that you just associate with her. After all if she's as wonderful a person as you say this wasn't something done by just a 2-dimensional 'slut' but by someone motivated by thought-processes and emotions.
I hope that makes some kind of sense, I know it's kind of a random suggestion but the key is trying to take yourself out of your usual role with her and literally just empathise. Hopefully when you go back to the boyfriend-girlfriend mode that different understanding of what happened will stay with you and ease your feelings somewhat. Not to mention give you the knowledge that if she'll confide in you that deeply you two have something really special.
ANG answered Monday March 26 2007, 6:51 pm: well, you did say that youve done it before to. and she never said she was absolutely trying it again. so theres a chance of her saying no. although the fact that she said she didnt want to do that with you isnt right in her part. communication is a big thing. and you communicating so far is a good choice. dont be afraid to continue and make sure your opinion doesnt go without being noticied. if you plan on marrying this woman a lot of communicating will be going on. thats what marriage is about, communication. try talking to her again.
:] [ ANG's advice column | Ask ANG A Question ]
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